30-90 day inpatient treatment is cost prohibitive for a lot of people, even if they wanted to go. The fact that he felt ok about this statement says a lot of about an addict's powers of denial. So Velour, you have now ordered JulieAnne around by telling her what she needs to do. Velour wrote: Julie Anne and I have each explained our thoughts on the topic of this alcoholic pastor multiple times. The process which Christ Jesus taught was not kicking someone out. While some people in Celebrate Recovery may advocate divorce, Al-Anon doesnt take that approach for the spouses of problem drinkers. (This is different from hiding them for a little while and bringing them back on an apology/book tour. All people do. Friend your comment made me weep. Im sorry for all this, its just that fathers day was very hard for me this year. telling me that I cant comment to people who are expecting replies from me isnt ok. I have already done that. At least, from the description. Wev had varied opinions on how to handle addictions in the church on this thread. Wine for all (no grape juicewhat are you, some kind of wimp?) at communion. Getting a DUI at St. Peter Presbyterian Church was no big deal and driving on a suspended license was also no big deal. She just trotted out a few scripture verses as though that will take care of everything. Each situation is different. Maybe she was advocating for it to be done in public (? ), are out of line. One or two DUIs is usually not enough. It is complex. and Rank awarded by Divine Right Hath the Most Privileges of All. And you spent time ignoring the simple points that I made, that were crystal clear. Velour, I concur with what you have said. I wasnt raised with the concept that your church keeps tabs on what youre up to. I have said nothing medical at all in any way. That he should get treatment; and The idea is to protect the congregation and also try to restore the clergy member to wholeness. I am not the one who is saying how people should get people into treatment programs. The point to this story is that alcohol, for some people, is almost invariably destructive and those that love them have a limited ability to help them. In that case, the hurting people reference is not applicable and its spin off allusions are incorrect and misleading. I am sorry that you are in pain and may have to have surgery. You advocated, like Barbara, that Sproul Jr. be kicked out of his church. Methinks you proclaimed the gospel. nothing worse than a drunk driver hurting innocent people and its NOT an accident when a drunk gets behind the wheel and people die or are hurt terribly and being sorry doesnt cut it in court, Like I said in my other comment, this issue raises a lot of emotions in a lot of people, @ elastigirl: And even if they want it sometimes its too difficult. The Bible says that those who profess to be brothers in Christ and are drunkards need to be expelled from the church. I verified this myself, at the site, at the time. Not the family, not the legal system, not the medical people-the church. I have experience. I am a hardliner. After he became the scapegoat and the Father had imputed to him every sin of every one of his people, the most intense, dense concentration of evil ever experienced on this planet was exhibited. The Sprouls have eleven grandchildren, one granddaughter deceased, and seven great-grandchildren. It takes a tremendous faith in Gid, as well as support from non judgement all Christians to let go and let your child experience the consequences. You are also incorrect that I am putting Barbara down because I disagree with her. Frustration, yes. Do they criticize non-drinkers? Please check back later for why I think this article is pertinent. The objective and end goal must always be repentance unto restoration. Galatians 6 seems to differentiate between those people who are to be restored and those in ICor 5 that are to be put out. It can also be very hard to live with one. Talk about a great way of destroying the faith of children! He needs to be in an in-patient treatment program. Ive seen the terrible impacts of alcohol abuse in my family, beginning with just a beer at the picnic to full-fledged alcoholism with many consequences. That is a very condescending response, Velour. No excuses for it, ever. This isnt NEW behavior, this is the same old thing playing out with slightly different circumstances. The fact is RC Jr has been abusing booze since he was a teenager. He was into the Federal Vision (Doug Wilson) heresy which caused a lot of anguish for a lot of people for years. However, he was considered a,dry drunk,never stopped his stinking thinking. H.A. IMHO In essence this TWW blog post was initially about questions of present organized levels of pastoral oversight & accountability within reformed churches, and of the sufficiency of the processes thereof. Putting the focus on Sprouls alcoholism getting him into treatment, support groups, counseling, church support, etc. I am not sure one can blame leukemia on a toxic waster problem with surety. I would ask that you not use it again though. It probably depends on the individual. im very sorry you had to go through that. She also lost her two front teeth, among other serious injuries. As such, faithful Instructions for Christ followers are provided should these unfortunate events occurs providing correction and certain training in righteous, that the body Christ followers would be built up properly unto the unity of the faith, unto to the glory of God Himself! Actually, yes, several people have never mentioned treatment. I can never forget the dead that were dragged in off I-95 into our ER. @ Deborah Coan: That was the time between his arrest in November 2016 and his plea deal. This is so dangerous. Im not seeing how sitting in a church building once a week listening to sermons treats things such as depression or alcoholism. I know people, who are close to me, involved with St. Peters I love and miss dearly. It is remarkable how LITTLE one can do for an addict if the addict doesnt want help. Rcjr is a gentle spirited man who loves his family and grieves over his sin. She may not have much say over what he does, especially anything involving his children. As flawed and controlling and crazy-making as that church might have been, at least most of the people there didnt strike me as malicious. I know its hard, I do cry for strength, I dont always like him for the damage done to our family. I really doubt most alcoholics CAN go to inpatient treatment for 30 let alone 90 days. These accounts can be found in many places on the internet. I tried really hard to help and could not. He made need to be hospitalized and treated by those who are not overly impressed with the Sproul name. Nor is it brave of me to admit here in public that Im diabetic its not an admission at all, any more than it is to say that I have perfect pitch (musically) but that, at almost 49, I need glasses these days to read small print. With all of that information available, and with all that superstructure that is supposed to protect people (and it would have had the people listened), he still gets hired. Barbara made the comment to H.U.G. People think they have far more impact than they do re: what they can control re: an addict, and they think they have far less control than they do re: what they themselves can do to reduce the impact of the addict. Spinderella Sproul: Lessons In Spin With RC Sproul Jr, the legal criteriaof having his criminal case accepted by the Allen County Drug Court, the church governing body was aware of this issue. Ive had people pressure me to drink when Ive gone to parties (when they see me standing there sans drink in hand), and Ive had a few people ask me if Im a recovering alcoholic. My concern about Barbaras comment is that at no time did she mention in-patient medical treatment for R.C. In fact, why dont you just ask her opinion of treatment? I learned an important lesson while working in an alcoholic hospital when I was young. claimed that Al-Anon and sponsors tell people to separate from alcoholic spouses. Wonder what will happen to churches or SBC leaders if they are not willing to sign off on this resolution? "Will the SBC Be Able to Continue to Fund Costly Yet Necessary Sex Abuse Reform in a Transparent Fashion?" as opposed to their christian relatives who have been strapped with all manner of convoluted *& conjectured* shoulds and shouldnts. Mr Sproul Jr has not reached the bottom. On My Shelf The Gospel Coalition and Hubworthy Join Forces to Sell, Sell, Sell Books, This Wikipedia article covers things like the Ashley Madison. I checked out the comments on the Spinderella blog. It works some of the time. Many people lurk on TWW and dont post here. This does not give any of us an excuse to walk in disobedience to the Lord as he has. This does not give any of us an excuse to walk in disobedience to the Lord as he has.. They have to want it themselves, and desperately so. Wonder what will happen to churches or SBC leaders if they are not willing to sign off on this resolution? Look at Pauls comment about a little leaven. I get full after two. Hello Velour, I am sorry you were excommunicated on a trumped up charge. Some never recover, some fully recover- but all live with the result of where they are and how they got there one way or another. lots of contempt in them there words .. what is the story behind them? So far, nobody has mentioned Jr.s recent second marriage. About the three teens I mentioned: The other one has been deeply depressed and suicidal for at least a year. your anger is showing, yes. Thank you. I am not against treatment, and Barbara did not say her opinion, so until she specifies, we cannot assume. Hi VELOUR, I have never shared this before but I just needed to. or a drunkard, [substance abuse] Is it not those inside the church[a] whom you are to judge? But unless you are the owner of the blog its not okay for you to tell someone else to stop responding to you. According to Ligonier Ministries: Dr. R.C. But I have not seen anyone say, Kick them out of the church! Perhaps she is basing it on much more than that. @Velour, now Im getting your Dark Ages polemic. When he was born again by the power of Christ Jesus, he did become a new creature in Him. Few of them are willing and even able to do that. People who dont even pick up a drink can have unhealthy behaviors. As our ministry grew we ended up handling adult issues also. Denise Sproul passes away from leukemia. I communicated directly with one of his children and received confirmed that this quote was from one of them (and also received permission to post it here). A public memorial service will be held at . The prosecutor also has to agree to the terms of a plea deal and the probation report is also given to the prosecutor. I pray one day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this wouldn't be necessary. We cant assume they cant be helped, no. I am NOT saying that the oppressed one does NOT need attention and HELP!!! She is a white, non hispanic female registered to vote in Seminole County, Florida. His daughter, Shannon, born with Lissencephaly , died in October, 2014 at the age of 15. Sounds like it would do you good. We must try to get help for suffering people: medical intervention AND psychiatric intervention. Your post seems not to understand this, but if I have misinterpreted you, please correct me. Now to deal with your concerns in a more general sense (and this is where it seems we differ), in my experience most churches arent in any way qualified to deal with alkies. I have always qualified my comments with the fact that the church should seek professional help in how to deal with him and NOT handle it themselves. You know how to contact her. Erm, first time Ive ever said this but Im uncomfortable with this thread. Here is a link: http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/. His daughter, Shannon, born with Lissencephaly,died in October, 2014 at the age of 15. We did not do that with the lady in question who was going on and on about codependency. Its a sad world sometimes. Comparisons between yourself and Sproul are a little mismatched. 5000 COUNTY ROAD 46A Sanford, FL ROBERT SPROUL OBITUARY Sproul, Robert R.C. 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